What role does artificial intelligence play in shaping new art landscapes? Refik Anadol’s artistic journey reflects a lifelong fascination with the potential of machines as creative collaborators. With the insatiable curiosity ignited by watching ‘Blade Runner’ as a child, the artist has been constructing architectural canvases that become gateways to symphonies of light, sound and data. At the helm of an interdisciplinary studio, he develops data-driven aesthetics and seeks to harmonise them with human expression. His multifaceted practice spans monumental outdoor projections, immersive installations, sculptural interventions and NFTs, each exploring the intricate relationship between human creativity and AI’s evolving capacity to understand and convey emotions.
In this exclusive interview, we delve into the delicate equilibrium between pixels and feelings, where technology embraces human sensibilities, re-imagining the possibilities of artistic expression.
Marek Wołyński: Your work revolves around the idea that data is not merely numbers, but also a form of memory. How do you understand that?
Refik Anadol: This is a fundamental question when it comes to working with data. Each data set is uniquely structured to serve a specific purpose within a system, be it hardware, software or complex computational systems. For instance, in social media, likes, comments and shares create a memory type within that system. Similarly, when using a GPS system, the places we go and the destinations we set become a memory type. It’s not just about numbers or databases; it’s about how information transforms into an experience.
MW: The experiences you create vary from monumental architectural pieces to installations in galleries and NFTs. How do you decide on the scale of your projects?
RA: The beauty of working with architecture lies in its uniqueness. Each building, location and facade presents a distinct canvas for our creations. When I approach a project — like ‘Unsupervised’ at MoMA, or the facades of the Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA, or Casa Batlló in Barcelona — I see the architecture itself as the canvas.
It’s not about an egocentric request for a specific scale; instead, it’s about the potential and possibilities that the architecture offers. Each surface is unique, and this necessitates innovative thinking and problem-solving to adapt our creations to the environment. This challenge is what makes our projects truly beautiful; if they were easy, they wouldn’t be as remarkable.
MW: You often use a room with screens and mirrors to immerse viewers in a world that blends time and space. To me, such a space acts as a portal filled with digital data paintings — a contemporary cave evoking a distinct sci-fi, kind of Kubrickesque feel. Why do you choose this particular format?
RA: My main purpose when creating architectural scale works is to question the quality of spatial experience — to challenge the conventional walls, floors and ceilings. I often wonder why rooms are so repetitive and mundane, while games offer whole new universes. Why are our living spaces so static and dull, merely protecting us from the external environment? This line of questioning led me to explore immersive rooms as early as 2009, augmenting built environments with data, information and light. It’s about reconstructing a basic room into something that can hold so much more. When we replace traditional walls with media and paintings with pixels, we introduce a whole new dimension to the spatial experience.
It’s not just about numbers or databases; it’s about how information transforms into an experience.
MW: Visitors are usually hypnotised, aren’t they?
RA: Very much so. The meditative and emotional quality of the works plays a significant role in creating that hypnotic effect. Each piece invites viewers to immerse themselves in a contemplative space, fostering a deep connection with the artwork. Many individuals have shared their experiences, explaining how they felt much better after engaging with the works, reaffirming the power of that meditative connection.
MW: How do you manage the production of such interdisciplinary projects? What does your studio look like?
RA: Our studio is composed of 20 individuals who speak 15 languages and represent 10 countries. It’s a wonderfully diverse space. When we embark on research and creation, it feels like making a movie, creating a celestial experience, or conducting a complex symphonic orchestra. Each team member brings their unique contribution and expertise to the table, but we all work toward a shared vision. The team includes AI data scientists, architects, engineers, computational designers, programmers, musicians, scholars and various other specialists. Tackling the projects is incredibly challenging, as they often demand months or even years of dedicated work. From a distance, the result may seem simple, but behind the scenes, it requires a vast amount of resources, energy, intelligence and emotions.
The beauty of working with architecture lies in its uniqueness.
MW: Recently, you travelled to Iceland to create ‘Glacier Dreams,’ which premiered at Art Dubai and was later shown at Art Basel and in Singapore. You also collaborated with the Yawanawá tribe from the Amazon Rainforest and created NFTs. What attracted you to focus on environmental subjects in remote locations?
RA: I must highlight the role of Hans Ulrich Obrist in shaping those conversations and dialogues about nature and the preservation of its different facets. Nature, as a whole, is incredibly diverse and rich, making it an endless source of inspiration. With Hans Ulrich’s guidance, we focused on glaciers as a crucial part of nature in our ongoing journey of exploring full natural systems. Regarding the collaboration with the Yanawaná tribe, it was about seven years ago that I had powerful experiences and dialogues in Amazonia. The impact of those encounters led me to envision a return one day. After working on various projects involving natural themes, our next journey is dedicated to meaningful and purposeful research focused on rainforest preservation. Considering the themes, time frames and often remote locations, these projects are complex and monumental endeavours.
MW: How do you handle the ephemeral and ever-changing nature of the data in your pieces, especially those that incorporate real-time information like weather data?
RA: We have a variety of works, some that embrace temporal qualities and others that are designed for a more permanent context. For example, the piece I’m currently working on at MoMA is alive and ever-changing. It utilises real-time weather data, microphone data for sound, and visual input from a camera to respond to the space’s visual activities. The piece is constantly evolving, and we never know exactly what it will show next. It’s an intriguing serendipity that connects with the audience in unique ways. On the other hand, some of our works are pre-computed and carefully preserved, providing a different experience altogether. They coexist with the realtime world of ideas and frozen concepts. ‘Winds of Yawanawa,’ for instance, was initiated 10 years ago, and its data continues to be collected from various cities worldwide. However, installing a special device in the heart of the Amazon rainforest is challenging due to its remote and inaccessible location, making it a very distinct and valuable project.
MW: How do you strike a balance between control and serendipity in the AI-driven space?
RA: The impact of AI on the creation process and the viewer’s experience varies depending on the project. Some works require deep contemplation about control and change, while others do not. For instance, when creating ‘Glacier Dreams,’ we were not seeking to mimic reality or replicate existing art styles like Van Gogh or Monet. Instead, we were striving to discover new languages, aesthetics and approaches. Each project presents a unique challenge, and the spectrum of possibilities is vast. There’s no one-size-fits-all formula; it requires reinventing the approach for each artwork, depending on the concept and desired outcome.
MW: As AI based on language models progress, there seems to be an increasing need for a balance between data-driven aesthetics, rigid language models, and human expressions and emotions. How do you navigate this complex conundrum in your practice?
RA: AI is not yet the common ground for humanity that some may believe. It’s essential to recognise that current AI models are built on our leftover information from social media, websites, comments and reviews, not a comprehensive representation of humanity’s collective intelligence. To truly achieve the ultimate goal of AI emulating human emotions, significant human research and inclusivity is needed. However, achieving this requires extensive work, time and resources, not just financial, but human research. We cannot take a lazy approach and merely dump data. True inclusivity demands collaboration, communication, and sharing of ideas and knowledge to bring together the diverse voices of humanity.
MW: AI’s rapid advancement has raised concerns about misinformation and job market upheaval. Geoffrey Hinton, the godfather of AI, quit his job at Google mentioning the ‘existential risk’ posed by the creation of a true digital intelligence. Are you concerned about these developments, or do you face ethical challenges when working on your projects?
RA: I’m not deeply concerned, but I’m aware of the potential issues AI can pose. Privacy and free will are indeed significant challenges. While it’s possible for AI to create problems, it’s equally possible to address and solve them early on by setting appropriate guidelines and regulations. We prioritise ethics in our work to ensure responsi ble AI use. We never use real data and dedicate months, sometimes even a year, to cleaning and curating the information we work with. Our focus lies in collective memories, avoiding any personal or sensitive data. We have strict internal guidelines to ensure that every model we create adheres to ethical standards.
Each piece invites viewers to immerse themselves in a contemplative space, fostering a deep connection with the artwork.
MW: You have made buildings dream and machines hallucinate. As you continue to bring non-human elements to life in our environment, what directions or new areas of exploration are you excited to delve into?
RA: My biggest dream is the next project, ‘DATALAND,’ which is currently under development. We recently announced rainforest AI research at the World Economic Forum — our goal is to create the largest opensource rainforest AI model ethically. It’s a massive undertaking, and it fills me with excitement and a sense of purpose. Beyond that, we are exploring brain signals from people experiencing our artwork at MoMA. This line of investigation promises to make a significant impact in our understanding of the viewer’s response. In general, our research heavily focuses on generative AI, but we also collaborate with neuroscience and delve into biosensing. It’s an ambitious and advanced research that will enable us to quantify the impact of our work, and we are eagerly pushing the boundaries of what is possible.
The interive with Refik Anadol was first published in Contemporary Lynx Magazine in print, issue 2 (20)/ 2023. The interview was conducted in July 2023.
